Discussion from “Melbourne Against Chemtrails” Facebook group

(A test case in what happens when activists work together rather than against each other)

Karen: I need some help in response to this please. Facts only. This is someone who is adamant that the scientific community cannot be wrong about climate change and that carbon dioxide is causing it. Absolutely against Geoengineering possibility and believes nothing bad about Paris treaty.

This was the last response:

“Over 97% of climate scientists accept the science of global warming and that fact is established by a number of independent studies. Your suggestion that thousands of climate scientists are somehow all corrupt is utterly unrealistic and simply not true. There is utterly no evidence that suggests CO2 is not playing the major role in warming our planet. Yes, if you want to listen to the denialist blogs, they will tell all sorts of stories but scientific facts are very clear and supported by every scientific institution on the planet. You are certainly entitled to your opinion on the issue but you cannot have your own facts.”

Emily: I wouldn’t bother because they are clearly ‘blindsighted by science’ (or what they think is science) as if it were a religion. If they cared about research they would do it themselves.

Karen: I want to bother though because it’s the first time a friend of mine has been open enough to post anything on it and put herself out there so she needs support.

Shane: Do you know the effects of carbon emissions have on trees? They love it, they grow faster and healthier balancing the thermal and oxygen input / output. I would provide links but I am working from my phone.

Karen: I do but I need some really good evidence. I am not silly enough to punch above my weight. I am not a scientist so like most people here I get laughed at and don’t always have the exact scientific numbers in front of me. I am a mum who is concerned about the future of this planet for my children, their health, my health and how the hell we get people to ‘see’ this. Thank you, if you do have some links I will very much appreciate them.

Julie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pruTqY_JLcg&feature=youtu.be

Karen: Thank you.

Julie: I’d point her in the direction of this initially. Then to something called “climategate” where a group of scientists hid the decline in a graph indicating that global temperatures are going down not up. There is also a petition signed by a number of scientists who are saying that the official story is not settled. Can’t remember where I’ve seen it though. Don’t trust Wikipedia though. Anything the agenda wants pushing is changed on Wikipedia.

Sezur: It’s always just OUR opinions or facts isn’t it? I would respond in the following manner: Yes the globe is in meltdown. How else would ice caps be melting, methane hydrates thawing, record-shattering temperatures in countries and oceans around the world being measured, sea levels rising, hotter water fish being found in normally cold waters, etc. However, if carbon was the primary factor for global warming, according to YOUR establishment’s scientists, for every degree Celsius rise there should be 7 percent more moisture in the atmosphere therefore raining more often. Carbon-laden rain would stimulate more growth hence absorbing more carbon. That is earth’s natural way of self-repair. But what do we have instead? Record droughts and the occasional deluge. Oceans are layering and building up with heat. The El Nino should have occurred long ago but what is stopping it? The ozone layer is being torn apart. The UV is far more intense every summer. What is causing this? Surely its not only CFCs or HFCs (refrigerant gases) considering the rate of UV intensity. I work in the industry and I for one can tell you how strict they are becoming around Western countries with the handling of the gases. Surely this same scientific community know there’s something missing in this equation and what it is. The reason why they don’t speak out is because: A. some of them are very heavily brainwashed. B. Compartmentalisation, therefore the bigger picture cannot be formed amongst them with their collective data. C. A lot of them are afraid to speak out as they have signed non-disclosure agreements. D. A lot people only care about self-preservation so they turn a blind eye to the corruption they witness, worry about the pay check and retirement. E. Some do speak out and we see what happens to whistle blowers. At best their reputation is ruined, at worst they incidentally suicide by shooting themselves 3 times in the head. Any person that has a basic sense of reasoning and acknowledges the human condition’s potential to create evil, especially on grand scales as it has occurred in history, should have the common sense to estimate the possibility of global coordinated crime, especially in a world where people are subjected to fear and are controlled by money. Otherwise don’t bother with them.

Karen: Thank you Sezur.

Julie: Brilliant. It’s true actually. I used to really get uptight about trying to convince people but I started to realise that that was my Story… Wanting to be “right”… Now I realise that all you can do is give them information and let them do what they will… Sometimes it sticks and they will go on to research themselves… Sometimes it won’t …l learnt to live MY truth. They will get to theirs one day. But I continue to talk about and I know that it’s their fear that stops them believing. Don’t forget the massive change in worldview that happens when you wake up.

Sezur: I always respond to such deniers by saying our perception is irrelevant.The truth is relevant and I strive to align my perception with the truth. Generally if I feel that they keep adding stones to their wall as I speak I keep it short and move on. Either way the truth will eventually rip their heads out of the ground.

Julie: A lot are paid to disagree in this medium.

Wayne: If all else fails there is an alternative approach that I try out in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX52VTYTAj0 It makes it clear that it is irrelevant which side of the mainstream climate debate you are on because there is a built in irrationality in the debate as a whole. The following presentation also, from Amsterdam http://enouranois.eu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/next_step_for_the_movement.pdf has a couple of useful links: one in which Paul Mac extracts from a member of the IPCC an acknowledgement that “geoengineering” is already being implemented: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtbRDAwjaNM&list=UUC2Q2KRhniYuqpJP6LoXKjw It also includes an anti-ecologist rave from a Berkeley activist that might make an impression. http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2014-11-14/article/42701 This last-mentioned I leave to your discretion because the activist concerned, Vivian Warkentin, might be too easily classifiable as a “climate denialist”, despite her display of “liberal credentials”.

Karen: Thank you so much.

Fiona: Max Bliss mentions several academic papers or documents in his video. You could glean info here or send it to your friend to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg_xpkxWhe8

Wayne: “Punching above one’s weight” is exactly what happens when the rank-and-file chemtrails activist tries to get involved in the mainstream climate debate. It is not necessary. In any case both sides of that debate are corrupted. They studiously avoid any contact with our problematic. They would much rather argue with each other endlessly and heatedly than have a sober discussion with us.

Karen: Which is why I don’t want an argument about it because I realise this but supporting people who are awakening to what’s going on is very much needed. I have noticed that when the heat gets put on and questions asked by ‘shills’ or whatever they are called today that everyone runs for the hills and doesn’t come out of private Facebook groups to support, encourage and educate. No fighting required, needed or wanted but support from a knowledgeable community is. Kind regards.

Fiona: Yes it is hard when people do not turn up for events and stay behind facebook cover. We have to get so determined to make an impact to change the status quo – for our kids and grandkids. Righteous anger is what drives me to do whatever it takes. The next thing I intend to do is go to our local MP for a meeting armed with documents I have printed and quote out of them face to face. Let them know that I know this is a classified program and I won’t buy the contrail fluff script they have ready for us. Then make them accountable to bring it up at parliament. Worth a shot anyway.

Paul Mac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiFJ4AJagIw

Karen: Thank you so much.

Paul Mac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUjf_ldXMd0 The data is clearly being twisted and cooked to suit the “peer reviewed” science communities and govcorps own ends. Karen, one can present gold plated truth and it will be denied as fabrication by these people. The agenda must be pushed forward by them in no uncertain terms….and we must resist.

Wayne: Nevertheless, political alliances with climate sceptics who are not first and foremost chemtrails activists do not seem to be feasible. They will agree with all of the analysis about the cooking of the books to suit the “peer reviewed” science communities. They will aggressively put forward this critique themselves. But they will NOT accept that global spraying is an established reality. Meanwhile the predominant side in the climate debate, the side that is organizing COP21, are perpetually on the lookout for evidence that we, the “conspiracy theorists”, are enemies because we are climate change sceptics.

Karen: So essentially we are trying to be honest and do the right thing but we are fighting an unbeatable beast? No wonder I get down about all of this. Hope is just about gone in me. All I truly give a shit about is stopping this crap impacting my family’s life and health and ensuring there is any kind of decent future for my children. The science stuff shits me to tears because I recognise both sides are bought and paid for. I have no idea who to trust any more so I trust no one, but I am a mum at her wit’s end watching tyrannical governments, insane scientists and idiotic people tax the crap out of our lives, drop chemicals on our heads and knowingly participate in destroying the planet. I think I am close to shutting all this off, going to my farm and hoping I can live in peace because nothing else is making much sense anymore. Thanks for the help guys. I will just leave it alone, I think. The beast is bigger than me.

Paul Mac: It doesn’t mean we do not try, this is why we have been attending climate change rallies and handing out information to people who clearly only have half the picture and half a lie…our silence (otherwise) becomes consent.

Wayne: Paul Mac’s attitude of determination is right. I think it is better not to weaken ourselves by trying to win two arguments at the same time, but giving up is worse.

Karen: Kinda feel like I am damned if I do and I am damned if I don’t. I have been belittled and attacked by both sides (of climate change and of geoengineering) now on multiple occasions (mostly because I am not a ‘scientist so therefore how do I know anything’) and have continued to be passionate about what I have learned, what I see and have personally experienced while living in the USA and Europe and how my health and my family’s health has been impacted, but as everything ramps up I feel very lost some days in a sea of insanity that I am starting to wonder about absolutely everything and everyone’s intentions – no friggin wonder the world is in the state it is in. I have attended every March Against Monsanto (one in London) and also some climate change gatherings in Europe, one meet up here in Melbourne but the numbers at every single event were so embarrassingly dismal it took me a while to regain belief in myself that my voice can actually do anything in the sea of minions and against the immense power and corruption that exists. Not a nice feeling as a mother of small children when I am not sure some days how to explain the world to my children. Thank you for your information I have seen some of them but will go through it all.

Jolanda: http://joeforamerica.com/2015/09/greatest-hoax-21st-century-98-scientists-not-believe-man-made-climate-change/

Wayne: Jolanda are you assimilating what we are talking about?

Jolanda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCy_UOjEir0&app=desktop

This guy has facts:

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=101728306584541&tsid=0.0365952611900866&source=typeahead&hc_location=ufi

Wayne : Jolanda, Greek lignite is actively campaigning against the “greatest hoax of the 21st century”. But do you see what he says to us? http://enouranois.eu/?p=1049 Please don’t just post another link. If there is an economic incentive behind the spraying of coal ash in the atmosphere (a profitable way of disposing of it) then the climate change debate is irrelevant and the “greatest hoax of the 21st century” even more irrelevant.

Paul Mac:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11591193/Australia-PM-advisor-says-climate-change-a-UN-led-ruse.html

Some great information and discussion in this thread.

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